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Pasted by Missingno., 16:47:46 1463071666GMTC o May 12, 2016 GMT
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  1. (9:58:05 AM) keys2kingdom: I know you might be busy atm but here's the completed list of evolved Stater Pokesonas:  
  2. (9:58:12 AM) keys2kingdom: Izanagi > Izanagi-no-Okami (Mega Aggron  
  3. Seiten Tensai > Xuanzang (Infernape based  
  4. Yunlungr > Kohryu (Mega Rayquaza based  
  5. Pyro Jack > Scathach (Gardevoir based  
  6. Take-Mikazuchi > Odin (Marowak based  
  7. Titan > Atlas (Regigigas based  
  8. Camazotz > Seth (Giratina based  
  9. Jiraiya > Mananan (Siesmitoad based  
  10. Cu Sith > Cerberus (Mega Houndoom based  
  11. Matador > Hell Biker (Bisharp based  
  12. Arahibaki > Alilat (Beheeyum based  
  13. Hua Po > Kaguya (Floreges based  
  14. Decabria > Mata (Heatran-based  
  15. Toukubei > Rangda (Gliscor based  
  16. Orpheus > Messiah (Clefable based  
  17. Yatagaratsu > Horus (Talonflame based  
  18. (9:58:26 AM) keys2kingdom: PM me with your comments at your leisure  
  19. (9:59:09 AM) Oh?  
  20. (9:59:25 AM) Is this being used for something?  
  21. (9:59:52 AM) keys2kingdom: Didn't I mention how te starters reappear to assist the group?  
  22. (10:00:08 AM) Oh, I don't think so  
  23. (10:00:15 AM) keys2kingdom: Oh  
  24. (10:01:14 AM) keys2kingdom: Well in Part 2 the Guardians are actually going to be Genre Savvy and just powerful over all  
  25. (10:02:20 AM) keys2kingdom: The Starters will reappear during certain fights when the guardians have totally stacked the decks against the groups  
  26. (10:03:06 AM) keys2kingdom: These evolved forms are extremely powerful Personas within the series   
  27. (10:03:59 AM) keys2kingdom: But they really don't actually fight in battles under the control of players.  
  28. (10:05:31 AM) keys2kingdom: I'd like to hear any thoughts you had on what I chose etc.  
  29. (10:05:49 AM) Ah  
  30. I think my only concern is when you say based... do you mean like that's the base form or like, say, Seth is a Noivern that takes inspiration from Giratina  
  31. (10:06:43 AM) keys2kingdom: Have you seen Seth?  
  32. (10:07:14 AM) Just did  
  33. (10:09:08 AM) Though I'm generally of the opinion of 'if Pokesonae evolve, it should be to something sharing the same form, since that's how the main group's ones work'  
  34. (10:11:01 AM) keys2kingdom: The thing is the groups Personas are the odd ones out in that regard  
  35. (10:11:33 AM) keys2kingdom: When Personas get stronger it's through Fusion  
  36. (10:11:49 AM) keys2kingdom: *When most Personas  
  37. (10:12:32 AM) Yeah, Fusion's weird, but could you call it Fusion rather than Evolution, then?  
  38. (10:13:15 AM) *I know Fusion is how it usually happens  
  39. (10:14:06 AM) keys2kingdom: Technically I was going to refer to these forms as "Advanced Forms" in-universe.  
  40. (10:14:32 AM) keys2kingdom: this is so we don't have to go into Fusion IRP  
  41. (10:14:47 AM) It did kind of happen with Daisoujou already, though  
  42. (10:14:49 AM) keys2kingdom: At least for this plot  
  43. (10:14:58 AM) keys2kingdom: No...  
  44. (10:15:12 AM) Didn't Titania and Oberon fuse?  
  45. (10:15:18 AM) keys2kingdom: That was Daisoujou killing them  
  46. (10:16:00 AM) keys2kingdom: With a Light or Almighty skill  
  47. (10:16:08 AM) Ah  
  48. (10:19:31 AM) *** would rather stick with evolvution or make it explicit that these are fusions, still  
  49. (10:20:39 AM) keys2kingdom: They are explictly going to be the same starters just in different and exceeding powerful forms  
  50. (10:21:20 AM) keys2kingdom: This was the part where Types, abilities, etc had no restrictions  
  51. (10:22:36 AM) keys2kingdom: Xuanzang is going to be a Psychic Delta Infernape  
  52. (10:23:27 AM) keys2kingdom: Seth is Dark/Dargon rather than Ghost Dragon  
  53. (10:24:22 AM) keys2kingdom: There are other examples  
  54. (10:25:47 AM) Fair enough, but I mean this more from the sense of 'This may make sense in the universe we're borrowing it from, but in a Pokemon sense, if you have a Noibat turn into a Dark/Dragon Giratina, you should probably be clear how it happened'  
  55. (10:26:36 AM) keys2kingdom: Well it's not going to look exactly like a true Giratina  
  56. (10:27:17 AM) If it's anything that isn't a Noivern, I mean  
  57. (10:27:28 AM) keys2kingdom: Oh  
  58. (10:28:57 AM) keys2kingdom: Well I considered Noivern but nothing high-leveled had a design that could be easily swapped out for a bat  
  59. (10:29:58 AM) keys2kingdom: Seth was what I came up with but the neck was way too long  
  60. (10:30:50 AM) keys2kingdom: So I opted to swap out for a Delta Giratina rather than a Noivern   
  61. (10:31:56 AM) Er, I meant more 'I don't think we should gloss over a mechanic that's at odds with how things normally work in Pokemon'  
  62. (10:32:33 AM) keys2kingdom: Regigigas as Atlas was just something that had to be done because the former is based on the later and Atlas' design is similar to Titan's  
  63. (10:33:09 AM) keys2kingdom: That's the thing we can gloss over it here.  
  64. (10:33:31 AM) keys2kingdom: the group isn't getting into fusions themselves  
  65. (10:34:12 AM) keys2kingdom: And the only fusion we've seen is Norn  
  66. (10:34:37 AM) Oh, duh  
  67. (10:36:03 AM) Though, yeah, that was a flub on my part not explaining it. I do think I should offer one since I've done it  
  68. (10:37:25 AM) keys2kingdom: Well it already implied that Demons are "Wild Personas". Demons can combined to form new, stronger demons.  
  69. (10:38:05 AM) keys2kingdom: So it can be implied that Personas and Pokesonas can do this as well  
  70. (10:40:02 AM) keys2kingdom: Strict lower to higher stages isn't the rule in the CU, it's the exception  
  71. (10:40:31 AM) keys2kingdom: *Strictly changing from lower to higher stages  
  72. (10:40:50 AM) keys2kingdom: Another example of this Kaiwain  
  73. (10:40:52 AM) Yeah, the thing is now that it's clear that's the rule, I'd rather it be stated as such  
  74. (10:41:08 AM) In some way, even offhand  
  75. (10:41:25 AM) keys2kingdom:  
  76. (10:41:53 AM) keys2kingdom: the thing practically screams Starmie/Mr. ime fusion  
  77. (10:42:37 AM) keys2kingdom: Yet Kaiwan is consistantly atleast 30 levels below Decabria  
  78. (10:43:15 AM) keys2kingdom: who, if you recall, is a Staryu-based Pokesona  
  79. (10:44:38 AM) keys2kingdom: But if you need an offhanded reference...  
  80. (10:45:07 AM) keys2kingdom: If anyone asks the starters are so different...  
  81. (10:45:17 AM) keys2kingdom: "Remember Norn?"  
  82. (10:45:22 AM) keys2kingdom: "Yeah."  
  83. (10:45:33 AM) keys2kingdom: "Same principal."  
  84. (10:47:57 AM) keys2kingdom: *ask the Starters why they are so different  
  85. (10:48:12 AM) keys2kingdom: *asks the Starters why they are so different  
  86. (10:48:17 AM) Okay, that would work, but thinking about this is making me feel like we've got a bunch of unanswered questions about the nature of these things that, as they exist in the Pokemon world which makes me not sure how to write for stuff  
  87. (10:48:53 AM) keys2kingdom: The CU works on Mindscape-esque rules.  
  88. (10:49:13 AM) keys2kingdom: i.e. all normal rules go out the window  
  89. (10:50:05 AM) keys2kingdom: Or in another way, normal logic doesn't apply  
  90. (10:51:05 AM) keys2kingdom: In fact there is VERY little logic when it comes to metaphysical stuff  
  91. (10:51:11 AM) I mean more in the sense of Shadows/Demons. Since I think we're unclear on how... I guess 'sapient' they are  
  92. (10:51:48 AM) keys2kingdom: Oh  
  93. (10:51:59 AM) Or to what extent they're their own beings and what extent they're part of a psyche  
  94. (10:52:06 AM) keys2kingdom: Well older =/= more sapient  
  95. (10:53:05 AM) keys2kingdom: And it's basically most Minor shadows are just "junk thoughts" unless stated otherwise  
  96. (10:54:19 AM) keys2kingdom: Demons them selves come into being in the CU via tthe principals of Gods Need Prayer Badly and Clap Your Hands If You Believe  
  97. (10:55:14 AM) keys2kingdom: So they are beliefs and superstions given a definite form.  
  98. (10:56:33 AM) I find it funny you phrase it that way, but I'll probably be coy about why until after Lisa's dungeon  
  99. (10:57:04 AM) keys2kingdom: And to ask you a question that might help "Do you think any mortal can kill a belief permanently?"  
  100. (10:57:58 AM) keys2kingdom: So Demons can't really be Killed Off For Real by any of the group   
  101. (10:59:24 AM) Noted. Fainting does make more sense in most Pokemon battles anyway  
  102. (10:59:58 AM) keys2kingdom: but they still vanish like they were dying at the moment.  
  103. (11:00:58 AM) keys2kingdom: these things at least have "a will to live"  
  104. (11:02:04 AM) keys2kingdom: but since they can be truly killed, just broken down into their base "stuff" which has to reform  
  105. (11:02:43 AM) keys2kingdom: *since they can't be truly killed by the group, just broken down  
  106. (11:03:47 AM) keys2kingdom: Think of as "fainting with a garuntee that you'll wake up, but that means you could wake up after centuries".  
  107. (11:04:50 AM) keys2kingdom: SMT is full of this gray area stuff  
  108. (11:06:53 AM) Ah  
  109. (11:08:02 AM) keys2kingdom: This can, has, and will fuel philosophical debates  
  110. (11:09:31 AM) keys2kingdom: So sometimes it's just better not to ask too many questions because sometimes asking too much ruins enjoyment  
  111. (11:12:22 AM) *** will ask if it impacts his writing, generally, but noted. Though, he is kind of fond of overanalysis at times, so  
  112. (11:15:11 AM) keys2kingdom: Bellasario's Maxim!  
  113. (11:15:54 AM) keys2kingdom: And Measuring The Marigolds  
  114. (11:21:59 AM) Eh, I'll respect that on your end, but as a general rule, I dislike those tropes because it feels like I've gotten called on tropes like those before when some parties are still having fun with it  
  115. (11:22:31 AM) Or at least, I don't like them being used as a general 'overanalysis is bad' thing  
  116. (11:23:18 AM) keys2kingdom: Here I'm envoking Belasario Maxim, becase Like Belasario, I haven't fully fleshed out every detail of the CU   
  117. (11:23:59 AM) keys2kingdom: I only did enough to make everything work IRP.  
  118. (11:25:15 AM) keys2kingdom: Because I never expected this to actually cause a surge of popularity for another arc like this one.  
  119. (11:25:38 AM) Fair enough  
  120. (11:26:46 AM) Personally, I guess I lean toward 'you don't need to have all the answers, but if the question comes up, you should figure out how to answer it' with my stuff  
  121. (11:28:10 AM) keys2kingdom: I can't say anything that won't sound like an insult to some degree  
  122. (11:28:56 AM) Sorry, I meant that more as my philosophy on stuff. Didn't mean to rude it wordly  
  123. (11:29:08 AM) *on how I prefer to approach my stuff  
  124. (11:29:18 AM) keys2kingdom: Ah  
  125. (11:30:43 AM) keys2kingdom: I was reading it more as "I ask for a lot of little details, so you need to ready to know how to answer anything".  
  126. (11:31:38 AM) Oh, no, didn't mean it like that.  
  127. (11:34:30 AM) It wouldn't be fair of someone to expect someone to answer absolutely anything about stuff on the spot, especially since, as much as I like details, I sometimes have troubles coming up with them on my end.  
  128. (11:35:53 AM) And I'm vaguer myself at times too  
  129. (11:36:34 AM) But, yeah, honestly that statement should apply to me more than anything  
  130. (11:36:53 AM) keys2kingdom: I mean I planned an decided a lot of stuff, but I'd never thought I'd have to explain Fusion  
  131. (11:37:35 AM) keys2kingdom: because they group wouldn't actually do it themselves  
  132. (11:38:19 AM) keys2kingdom: they might see it happen, but not trigger it directly etc  
  133. (11:39:11 AM) keys2kingdom: So I left fusion literally "some things combine to make stronger things".  
  134. (11:42:50 AM) Wait, did it get phrased like that in universe and I just forgot? ^_^;  
  135. I guess pretty much all I wanted was, if it comes up, a clear explanation that 'this is a natural part of the world' rather than a detailed explanation on what you need toy get what and the fusion forecast and whatever  
  136. (11:43:49 AM) *natural part of the world and possibly more common than evolution  
  137. (11:43:57 AM) keys2kingdom: Fusion NEVER gets explained proplery beyound fuse two or more Personas to make a stronger one.  
  138. (11:45:43 AM) Yeah, wasn't asking you to do that  
  139. At most I'd ask how a fusion chain ended up going to try and add characteristics from the persona that fused with each other if I were writing for any of the Starter Persona appearing later  
  140. (11:46:39 AM) But that's more my headcanon on SMT series fusions than anything 


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